Date Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:28 AM
From: "Ellen Sunnes" (esunnes@occc.cc.or.us)
To: (gilkey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) Cc:

Peter,

Here are some of my thoughts after yesterday's meeting. It was a good meeting, and the energy was certainly high. It is great to see people so impassioned about their fields. We know the students are being served from the heart. I really do believe a great part of the confusion is the misunderstanding of the classes that are included in the general education areas, and the fact that both community college and four-year university faculty had input into the required classes from the very beginning.

You were a fine facilitator!

Ellen Sunnes Oregon Coast Community College

From: Ellen Sunnes [mailto:esunnes@occc.cc.or.us]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:25 AM
To: 'jsuchanek@occa17.com'
Subject: General Ed Module

Good Morning Julie,

Here I am back at my desk (hopefully tied to it and not having to drive anywhere today), and responding to your request for some input on the AAOT and the new Gen Ed Module that is being developed. I will try and relate where I felt there was misinformation, or confusion, being shared yesterday. It seemed the faculty did not wholly understand the way the AAOT works.

First, both community college personnel and OUS personnel had input into the original, and subsequent versions, or clarifications of the AAOT. It was developed in 1989 through the Joint Boards Articulation Commission at that time (I believe, this may need to be checked out, but I can't find my original version of the AAOT agreement). Anyway, the four year university faculty DID have input into this document, and the choosing of courses which would meet the basic requirements. An excellent example of this are the writing classes required. Yesterday the faculty kept talking about would a poetry class count for the writing class. The answer is NO and if anyone were to look at the AAOT they would see that only WR121, WR122, WR!23, (the English Composition series) or WR227 (technical writing which would work with engineering majors) are acceptable. The "poetry" class, or any creative writing course would go only in the Arts and Letters category. These same writing classes would be incorporated into the Gen Ed Module. There is flexibility within the AAOT and the Gen Ed Module so that one can meet their specific major requirements if necessary.

An important item is the fact that 4 year university faculty were involved in the choosing of classes for the AAOT of which the Gen Ed Module is a subset. So there was input from all segments, and agreement reached.

The Gen Ed Module is a positive move as it will give those undecided students a chance to have some focus so when they transfer between schools (both community colleges and 4 year) they would know that the classes within the module would transfer. The Module does not contain enough credits to have students loosing any major credits. The reason it is called the gen ed core is that all students must have some credits in the basic discipline areas to come out as a well rounded individual.

All schools, both community college and 4 year universities, deal with students that are undecided. There is no way we will ever be able to avoid that as we are working with human beings, and they are just who they are. The purpose of going off to higher education is to learn about more options than you ever heard about in high school. Extra credits do cost the pocketbook, but the final outcome is to have students happy with the results. How many students have gone into teaching, and regret it when they get into the job market? That also happens with other areas. The beauty of higher education is the opportunity to explore.

One of the limitations of the AAOT was always that it does not apply to every major. This is where good advising comes in. Engineering has never been one of the fields the AAOT fits into, and students should always be advised to that fact. It just does not work due to the pre-engineering courses required. However, with the General Education Module, an engineering student would benefit, because they would have a chance to stand to the credits required in the various disciplines. In the OSU catalog it states "engineering programs includes a balance of courses in mathematics, science, liberal arts, engineering science, and engineering design". The Gen Ed Module would help the student to fulfill part of those requirements that are not specifically engineering. Even the engineering students must complete the bac core at OSU.

I believe I have pontificated enough. Please let me know if you have further questions. It truly would be better if those of us in the educational field could settle on a plan for the students rather than having it settled by the legislators in Salem who may not have the same depth of understanding of the educational process and the courses required.

It was great to see you as usual, Julie. Ellen Sunnes OCCC