[Ramón Escamilla speaking] Would you mind telling us more about the Indian devilling?

Indian Devils? Oh, that's a really dark channel there. Now, a long time ago, they did pretty bad things. They would go and dig into graves, and take out parts of bodies, and they always have a black bag, and they would put it in their black bag, and they mix it along with things like blue lizard tail, dart pieces, dart tail, and then they would sing to it, and they had their own songs. They would talk to the Devil, and ask for powers, this is their Indian power in this black bag. So then they go up the hill somewhere, and build a fire, they always had a kind of lean-to built, and they cover it with moss, and people always told me, "When you go by a big rock covered with moss that's hanging over, it could be one of them houses, so don't mess with it."

And one time I was picking huckleberry brush, and I kept getting this funny feeling like, I don't know, it's kind of like you, somebody pours hot and cold water down your spine or something. And I kept a-thinking, "Why do I feel this way?" And I'm walking on a log, and there's this great big tree, big tree, big trunk. So, I got down off the log, and there's a lot of huckleberry brush, and I used to pick and pick and pick, and I went around the other side of it and it's hollow. I mean, it is big hollow tree, like this, and you could go inside of it. And so, I was picking with this other person, I said, "Hey! Look at this hollow tree here!" And it had some of these branches leaning up against it. The other peson came and they said, "Wow! You know, you could sit in there when it's raining and you won't get wet because, look at it, it's clean down in there." So then they went and got down on their hands and knees and they looked up there. They came back out, they say, "Oh, it just feels weird in there." It made you feel like you're numb, and there's a great big bag hanging up there, it's like a leather bag hanging up there. [They] said, "I wonder why it's hanging up there?" I said, "Let's get out of here," because my grandmother always told me those bad people practicing that put their bad stuff in a bag and they hang it in a hollow tree, and that's how it stays dry. And those things can actually make noises, and they stink terrible. And so... because it has body parts and everything in that. And I've smelt that smell before twice in Hoopa, it smells so bad it paralyzes you.And I was laying there, and my first husband, like I told you, always used to pick on me and beat on me, so if he wasn't home, I'll be laying there all night worried about what's going to happen when he gets home. He's going to hit me, or slap me, or call me a bunch of names, or whatever. And so I was laying there, all of a sudden I hear this little tiny baby cry, a newborn baby crying, right down over the hill from my room. And that gave me the chills, and then the smell hit me. The smell was so bad I was paralyzed, I could not move, it felt like my face was just stiff. And so I laid there, and after a while it finally went away and the baby stopped crying, so there was an Indian devil down there, and he was making that noise with his bag. And they say when they transmit the power from that, 'cause they're always looking for somebody in the dark, they walk around in the dark, and if they wanna... don't like you for some reason, or somebody hired them to kill you or make you sick, they will transmit that power from that bag and you see a blue flame shoot out, and people have seen that. So, I guess they have pretty bad powers. But, and they can also run fast, you can shoot one of those people if they were sneaking around your house, they wouldn't die there even if you shot them through the heart, they're going to go home and die in their bed, because their power takes them home. So, it was, a lot of it going on back in the 1960s, all during 1960s, and so we kind of believed there for a while that my uncle was killed by one of those people, because there was a night the dogs barked and barked and barked, my uncle had his room going this way, and the window was there, and it was a hot summer night so he had the window open, and the dogs were barking and barking and barking, keeping my baby awake, and baby kept a-crying, I'd go in there, give baby her bottle, and kept a-crying. So, I thought, "I'm going to get rid of whatever's out there." I used to have a little .32 Baretta, I got it out, it got a little clip in it, got six shots in it. So I went out there, and I looked, and our dog Pierre was standing there, and he was barking toward the gate over there, and his fur was all puffed up on his back, so I stepped out there, I'm going to shoot over that gate. So I went out there and took that pistol, and it clicked. I thought, "Oh!" and it clicked. Four times it clicked, none of it would... and I was mad, I thought "Oh, them stupid people are selling me bad bullets!" So I went back to my room, which was way in the back, and I got out the .30-30, and I went back out there and put a shell in the .30-30, and by that time the dog was barking way over the fence way over there, so I stuck the gun up in the air, and I shot off two shots. And then I listened, and I looked, my uncle is sleeping there, I can see his face inside of the window. And so somebody came up during the time that I went back there after that gun, and came back and then went, so they transmitted their power on him, because the maple tree that was there had a limb that came down almost to his window, and that whole limb died, the very next day the leaves on it was all shrivelling up. And that's what my grandmother always said, if somebody is standing under a tree and they transmit their power, this is what happens. And so she seen a lot of it back in her time. So, we always thought this was something, you know, we were young and stuff, and we would joke and say, "Oh, that's long time ago, Indian devils are out of style, you know. But I guess they were still going then, but I have no fear of anything, my grandmother was like that, she was a fearless person, she would get out there and yell at those people, and so I wasn't afraid at all when I went out there, and if I saw him face-to-face I probably would have shot him, 'cause I wasn't afraid.

[Amy Campbell speaking] Was that the night your uncle died, or did he...?

Then he was sick the next day, he was sick in the morning, and then by afternoon I took him to the hospital, 'cause he was starting to run a fever, I got him to the hospital, they said, "Oh, he's contacted anthrax or something." So they put him in the hospital, they run some tests on him in Hoopa, and they said, "Oh, he's going to be okay, but we're going to have him quarantined for five days, you can't come in and see him or anything." "Okay," so we went home, and we just got home, Otis got home from work, and I was just telling him about what happened, the phone rings. They said "We're taking him to Eureka and we want somebody to ride with him." So, I had to run up there and tell my mother, "Will you ride with Uncle, they're taking him to the hospital in Eureka." She said, "Okay," so I drove up there and picked her up, took her down here to meet the ambulance at the forks of the road. Ambulance came by, and I came around the side, and he was just dark, looked like he was dead already. So they took him to Eureka, and they never could figure out what he died of, but he was dead by eight o'clock that night. So, it was really weird, and they never figured out what happened to him. So meanwhile they gave us all kinds of scare, they said, "Well if it's anthrax," you know, he was always working with hides and things, making these regalia and stuff all the time, so we kind of believed it, you know, 'cause he's working with all this, and we were freaking out, because Otis Junior was a little boy, and he was always following him around, and they said, "Well, it's possible that he's going to come down with this also." So, then, "Don't go in his room," 'cause it had to be something in his room. So they ended up taking that whole room and moving it way far away from the house, and fixing the wall there, enlarging our bedroom before we moved back in. Then, the people are throwing things on the roof, scaring my kinds, they could not sleep in their room, they had to sleep in our room on the floor around us, and Otis was working nights, so the kids took turns sleeping with me. And then this one night again the dogs were barking and barking and barking, I got out the .30-30, I'm gonna look and see what's out there. It's down over the hill, down there below the big tree there's a clump of blackberries, and that's where the dogs are barking. I looked through the window in a little crack there, and every time something behind that bush raises up, the dogs start barking and barking, and then they run back up the hill towards the house when that thing goes down. There's something, somebody, behind that bush, and I had a brand new screen on my window, so I cut it with my knife, stuck that .30-30 through there, the next time it raised up I shot underneath of it, and it disappeared, dogs didn't bark no more. So, I don't... came pretty close to somebody. And so this other time too, during that time period, there was somebody in the barn. We had a little pony, for the kids, and they took the poor horse's halter, and they put it over the top of the post, and here this horse was standing there with... and he could barely touch the ground, and so he's kind of more or less hanging there by his halter. So we came out in the morning, and here's Matsu, she's, or it was a she, she's hanging by her halter on the top of this post. So, I said it had to be somebody really big and burly to lift her up there and put that up over. So I said, "I'm going to listen this time and find out what's going on." So, dogs started barking again, toward the barn. I told Otis, "Dogs are barking toward the barn, somebody's over there." So, we just bought a .22 that shoots as fast as you can squeeze it off, so he went out there and he squeezed off a whole bunch of shots, looked like a machine gun went right up the side of that barn like this. And then we listen. Dogs started barking at my mother's house up corner of the property, down the road at the next house dogs were barking, way down on the corner dogs were barking. Somebody was running so fast. Next morning we went out there to the barn, there's a 6-pack of tall cans of beer sitting there, they went off and left it, but they never bothered the horse no more. But that was reservation life, and I didn't wish that on my kids, and that's how come I'm here. And they grew up good here, we didn't have anybody hating us or nothing, they did their schooling, they were into sports, and now they have good lives.

So, anything else you want to know about Indian devils or anything?

[Justin Spence speaking] Would you be interested in telling, like, some of those stories in Hupa?

Oh, I don't care.

[Justin Spence speaking] Okay. I mean, maybe starting with the one that you said where, you know, like where you found the bag in the hollow tree?

Okay.

[Justin Spence speaking] And, you know, just tell the same stories, but tell it in Hupa?

Okay, that's when I used to pick huckleberry brush. So, just tell it any old time, all in Hupa?

Okay.

dahungwho'-dun' do'n

a long time ago

chwiłji-ts'e:y'

huckleberry brush

wun-na:'iwha'-ne'ing

I used to pick it

haya:ł

and then

chwiłji-ts'e:y'

huckleberry brush

ła:n

a lot

mił-ky'o'xe:di

money

'e'iwhchwe'

I made it

nahł'its

a car

q'un

a new one

na:y'a'-ne'ing

I bought it

hayi mił

with it

A long time ago I used to gather huckleberry brush, and I made a lot of money with it, I bought a new car with it.

haya:ł

and then

yo:w

way up

diq'a:n

the ridge

na:whay

I was walking around

miq'i(t) yiduqi-ding

way up on top

Then I was walking around way up on the ridge.

haya:ł

and then

ting 'unłung

a lot of it

'unt'e:

there is

hayah

there

haya:ł

[and]

wun-na:se:ya'

I was working on it

ła:n

a lot

sehłchwe'n

I picked

And there's a lot of it up there. Then I worked on picking it, I picked a lot.

haya:ł

[and then]

łiwung

one person

whił

with me

na'uya'

[he/she] goes

haya:ł

[and]

hay

that

'idilchwe:

we are picking it

And one person would go with me, and we were are picking it.

mine:jixomił

after a while

'ista:n

a log

te:xits'-xola:n

it has fallen down

dahungwho'-dun'-din

a long time ago

siłte:n

it's lying there

miq'it-xw

on it

wiwha:l

I am walking

After a while, there's a log laying there that has fallen down a long time ago, and I'm walking on it.

wiwhchwe:lil

I'm picking as I go

haya:ł

and then

na:mina:di

around it

'ungya'

I realized

ting 'unłung

a lot of it

'unt'e:-ye:

there is over there

I'm going along picking, and then I realized there's a lot of it (huckleberry brush) over there around the tree.

keh te:siwh'ing'

let me look

hayah

there

na:nawhdiy

I got down off it

mina:di

around it

te:se:yay

I started walking

"Hey, let me look." I got down there off of it (the log), and I went around it.

hayah

there

sehłchwe'n

I started picking

I started picking there.

haya:ł

and then

de:-xw

around

na:te:y'e'n

I looked

'ungya'

I realized

xwe:di gya' 'ułkyow

great big

yehky'a'un

there's a cavity in it

de:de:

oh!

hayah

there

me:q'i

in

ky'a'a:n

there's a hole

hay

the

k'isxa:n*

tress

I turned around and looked. I realized there's a big cavity in it (the tree). Oh, there's a great big hole in the tree.

diywho'

what kind

xowh do'n

I'm guessing

'iłtuqi

an oak tree

xowh gya:y'

I'm thinking but not sure

hay

that

k'isxa:n

[which] was standing there

I'm not sure what kind, but I think it was an oak tree that was standing there.

me:q'i

in there

ky'a'a:n

it's got a cavity

kiyi(q')

a hollow tree

me'

in it

It's got a cavity in there, an old hollow tree.

haya:ł

and then

'a:de:ne'

I said

digyun

here

ningyahwh

come over

de:

this

nił'ing

look at it

And then I said, "Come over here, look at this!"

haya:ł

and then

hay whił na'way

the person who is with me

ch'iningyay

[she] came

ch'ite:ng'e'n

that person looked

And then the person that's with me came and looked.

'a'de:ne'

that person said

hay 'e'n

as for that

hayah

there

me'

into it

yehch'iwinya:-de'

if you go in*

me'

in there

ya'wing'a:-te:

you could sit down*

na:'uya'-din

at the time it's raining

do:-xolin na:'ułchwil

a person won't get wet

haya:ł

and then

hayi-wun

because of it

naha:nło'

we laughed

And that person said, "If a person goes in there, they could sit down. They wouldn't get wet when it rained." And we laughed about that.

keh te:siwh'in'

let me look at it

ch'ide:ne'

they said

yehch'iwilqol sile'n

the person kind of ducked in there

je:nah-ch'in'

upwards

ch'ite:ng'e'n

they looked

"Let me look at it," she said, and she kind of ducked in there and looked up.

ch'e:na:'unła:di sile'n

it's like they ducked back out real fast

'a'de:ne'

they said

She ducked back out real fast and said:

me:tsah-xosin

it's really bad

ła'ay-xw q'ut

all of a sudden

xo:' xowh* 'a:niwe:se:t'e'-ts'iw

I had a weird feeling

ła'ay-xw q'ut

all at once

ne:whgit

I became frightened

ye: sile'n

it seemed like

"It's really bad in there. All of a sudden I had weird feeling come over me." All at once it was like I got frightened.

je:nah-ch'in'

upwards

te:y'e'n

I looked

yo:w

way up there

me' yiduq

up inside

diywho'owh

something

nahłtsis-e:

it is hanging

widloy'i

it's wrapped up

q'ay'jindi

a bag

me'

[in it]

I looked up inside the hollow tree. Something is hanging up way up inside there, it's wrapped up, like a bag.

he:'

hey

de:ne'

I said

na:ydił

let's get out of here

xolisji

fast-like

hayi gya:n'

as for that

whichwo:-ne'in

my grandmother used-to-be

'a'de'ine'

she used to say

k'idongxwe:

Indian devil power

ch'ina:n'

they say

xa'unt'e:-di(n)

a place like that

me'

in it

na:ya'ułtsis

they always hang it up

haya:ł

[and then]

I said, "Hey! Let's get out of here real fast-like!" As for that, my grandmother used-to-be, she used to say, they say they always hang Indian devil power up in a place like that.

hayi mis'a:n'

its power

xoq'it

up on top of the person

dahwinyay

it engulfs the person

ch'ine:lgit*

they become frightened

haya:ł

[then]

na:te:se:de:tł'

we left

Its power grabbed hold up on top of someone, and they became really frightened. Then we left.

dahungwho'-dun'

a long time ago

na:dił-ne'in

people that dwelled at that time

me:tsah-xosing-xw

very seriously

wun-na:dił-ne'ing

they used to work on it

hay diywho'

some things like

k'idongxwe:

Indian devil power

ya:yiłchwe:

they were creating

A long time ago, the people who lived then used to work on some things in a very serious way. They were creating the Indian devil power.

ła'a-din

sometimes

dungwho'-ne'ing

somebody's body

xa:ya:yixwe'iwhe'

they dig him back out

xowh do'n

I guess

diywho' xona:'-tah-ne'in

used-to-be their eyes (and other body parts

ch'ina:n'

I heard

xa:ya'uqot

they poke them out

ya'de'ine'

they used to say

dahungwho'-dun'

[a long time ago]

Sometimes they dig somebody's body back out. I guess they used to poke out what used to be their eyes (among other body parts) - I heard they used to tell about it.

haya:ł q'ut

[and then]

diywho'

some stuff

xoky'o:ts'e'-ne'in

sinews

ch'e:ya'tiyo:s

they used to pull a lot of it out

hay

that

dungwho'

person

xo:'-'a:'udyah-ne'in

who has died

haya:ł

[then]

hayi-ne'in

that

'aht'ing

all

k'idongxwe:

Indian devil powers

ya'ułchwe'

they create

They used to pull a lot of the sinews out of the dead person, and they create the Indian devil powers with all that.

haya:ł

[then]

tse:-xayts'a'

a rock bowl

na:ya'uxa'

they take it around

niłchwin

it stinks

ch'ina:n'

I heard

tin

really

ła'ay-xw q'ut

[all at once]

mikyo:n'

its scent

me:tsah-xosing-xw

powerful

'unt'e:

it is

And they take it around with them, I head that it really stinks, its scent is really powerful.

haya:ł

and

hayi

that

łe:lmut'i

two parts put together

me'

in it

widloy'

it's wrapped up

na:ya'u'xa'

they pack it around

hay diywho' gya'

stuff

'unłung-xw 'unt'e:

everything

niłchwin

stinky

me'

it's in there

sa'a:n

it is

haya:ł

[then]

mich'in'

to it

ya'xe'ine:wh

they keep talking

haya:ł

and then

hay

that

k'idongxwe:

Indian devil

'e'iliw-e:

it becomes

And they pack around two parts that they put that together and wrapped up. A lot of stinky stuff, it's all in there. And they keep talking to it, then that becomes an Indian devil.

hayi

that

mił

with it

dungwho'

somebody

ya'xwe'iqot

they poke*

haya:ł

and then

They devil ("poke") somebody with that.

me:lah

some people

xo:' 'aya'uniw-e:

they die

hayi mił

because of it

Some people die from it.

xa'a:tilte'

it's that strong

mitilte'e'

its power

Its power is that strong.

haya:ł

[then]

łah

one time

whe:da'ay-yehwinyay

I heard

haya:ł

and then

hay mije'e:din

baby

chweh-ts'iw

I hear it cry

ye: nehwa:n

it seemed like it

de:-xw yitsin'

over the hill from me

Then one time I heard a baby crying. It sounds like it's over the hill from me.

haya:ł

and then

whe:da'ay na:diwing'a'*

I listened more

Then I listened some more.

mine:jixomił

after a while

dahungwho'owh

in great volume

diywho'owh

something

niłchwin

it stinks

'a:xowiłchwe'n

it started smelling

ła'ay-xw q'ut

all at one time

-ts'eh

[I felt]

'aht'in-ding do: whiq'it-xw xowe:niwh

my whole body became numb

hayi

that

miky'a:n'

because of it

After a while something started smelling really stinky, and all of a sudden my whole body became numb because of it.

ne:whgit

I became frightened

xowh do'n

I guess

ła'ay-xw q'ut

[all at once]

whila'-heh

even my hand

do: ya:na:ytun-te: sile'n

I could not raise it

I guess I became frightened, I couldn't even raise my hand.

mine:jixomił

after a while

do: 'a:na:xowiłchwe'n

it wasn't smelling

haya:ł

[and then]

After a while it didn't smell anymore.

xo'ji

right

'a:na:niwe:se:t'e'

I became again

hayahujit haya:ł

and then

'ayne'iwhsin'

I always think

hayi

that

xowh do'n

it must be

mije'e:din-ne'in

used-to-be baby

dahungwho'

someplace

xa:na:lte:n*

[it is taken up]

hayi-ne'in

that

chweh

cry

na:lchwe:n*

[it is made]

I got back to normal again, and then I always think, "They take what used to be a baby up (out of the grave), and that's what they make cry."

ch'ina:n'

I hear say

me:tsah-xosin

it's really bad

ła'ay-xw q'ut

really

I hear it's really bad.

dahungwho'

somewhere

nits'isqot-de'

if somebody pokes you

łitso:w

blue

whung

even

na:ngxa'-te:

it has a glow

ya'de'ine'

they always say

"If somebody pokes you somewhere (with it), the air will even turn blue around you," they always say.

haya:ł

and then

ch'in

[it is said]

diywho' k'isxa:n

a tree that's standing

me:w

underneath it

ts'isyin-de'

if he is standing there

dungwho'

somebody

ch'ixosqot-de'

if he devils

hayi-ne'in

used-to-be that

ch'id-e:-xolun-te:

you see it has died

hay miky'a:ng'ay

its arm

hay diywho' gya'

whatever

me:w

under it

ch'iwinyin'-te:

he stands

haya:ł

[and then]

And then (it is said) if he's standing there underneath a tree, if that person transmits his power to somebody from there, you see that it dies, that used-to-be limb of anything he stands underneath. And then...

de:di

now

do'n

I guess

'a:ya'de:n'-te:

they will say

k'idongxwe:

Indian devil

xowh do'n

there must be

ła:n

a lot

na:way

[going] around

ła:n

a lot of

diywho'

different kinds of

kin

trees

niłtsa:y

dry

na:da'ay

there are [standing up]

I guess now they will say, "There must be a lot of Indian devils around, there are lots of different kinds of dry trees now."

q'ut

[now]

hayi-xw

[that way]

wha:ne:

[only]

That's the end of it!